I too have found this considerably frustrating seeing H & S encompassed within HR as it often conflicts and I too have had experiences of peers in HR "amending" facts and this is unacceptable. Whilst I can see their logic as some organisations are not that large so to an organisation it may seem logical it is little more than a marriage of convenience. H & S is a specialist profession in its own right. Some of us are members of the only chartered safety institution in the world or other highly regarded institution and having facts watered down is not real. H & S needs a line direct to the most senior person in the organisation for good reason and not via an HR person. Remembering that H & S can be also be viewed as a legal position advising on matters of law relating to H & S. My two penneth...

Richard, I have mixed views on EU's as yes they can be a really useful tool for some but I can also see how some may indeed use this as an escape from prosecution route and cheaper. The larger organisations with EU's have thus far seemingly yielded some excellent initiatives including one that has commenced an apprenticeship program. Some truly good things coming from their learning's. I often wonder on the amount of EU's coming out but I'm not in Worksafe shoes reviewing each case. Prosecutions can be a worthy conclusion but only if it does punish (use that word loosely) when absolutely necessary with, for arguments sake, cases of absolute or extreme negligence perhaps for utter disregard to safety but such punishment not to bankrupt the defendants but a bruise if you like. Again I'm not a solicitor....I think EU's have a place yes but controlled....

Jon, the UK system was primarily and originally a central government scheme around procurement (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/public-sector-procurement-policy) that has now become the standard for safety assessment schemes in much the same way CSCS has with people and now boasts something like 57,000 suppliers nationally. Suppliers gain "certification" which is more than a simple pre-approval as it stems from a much larger picture that began as legislative changes around procurement. Unlike NZ the UK has considerable more resources available to bring about such a monumental change. Here in NZ I often review documents via a scheme here utilised by my current employers which belongs to one supplier but I have to take an open view that if a supplier has achieved a prequal from AN Other Ltd and is of equal standing and emboldens the same basic required information I will accept that. The industry will drive this into fruition one day but as earlier posts indicate here SME's are much more the norm. But until then a number of different suppliers will champion their systems all of which lay claim to taking the strain out of the bureaucracy of reviewing bidders, design work stages and offering the end client and with varying charges involved. We once called this competitive outsourcing in the UK during the 80's. The UK SSIP scheme is also heavily supported by the HSE which gives it considerable recognition. Until the time it morphs into ONE organisation I will review each submission from a prequalification organisation on a case by case basis and that means reading the content. My two penneth..Its good that you mention this from an overseas perspective as there is much we can glean from overseas as like minded professionals and most of us already share knowledge and experiences to avoid the bad bits, and make it our own model. I'd like one government backed or endorsed scheme with fair and transparent costs that we can all utilise, but this will dent some private organisations revenue streams...

Greetings all,
Brilliant to see the forum back up. I'm an old forum chap that withdrew from public life many years ago but I recently thought that was selfish of me. We all have a story to tell, tales to share, experiences to learn from. My background is 30 plus years across some very different environments, often high hazard and hostile from oil/gas refineries in Saudi Arabia, mining in Ethiopia, civil construction in the jungles of PNG, and a few more. More recently I was part of the Waterview Tunnel project and City Rail Link. I'm still learning today ! Good to see you again at the conference Peter and Grant, its been so many years. I don't know everything but if I can help you need only ask...